ABOARD THE PAPAL AIRCRAFT (CBS/AP) — The largest gay rights group in the United States said comments made Monday by Pope Francis reflected a “hopeful change in tone.”
A remarkably candid Francis struck a conciliatory stance toward gays, saying “who am I to judge” when it comes to sexual orientation.
“We shouldn’t marginalize people for this. They must be integrated into society,” Francis said during an extraordinary 82-minute exchange with reporters aboard his plane returning from his first papal trip, to celebrate World Youth Day in Brazil.
“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” the pope asked.
He also said gay clergymen should be forgiven, and their sins forgotten. Francis’ predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men who had deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests – but Francis was much more conciliatory in his first news conference as pope.
The comments, however, did not signal any change in church policy. Catholic teaching still holds that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” But the remarks indicated a shift in tone under Francis’ young papacy and an emphasis on a church that is more inclusive and merciful rather than critical and disciplinary.
Although gay leaders were encouraged by the pope’s non-judgmental approach, their encouragement was tempered by his reference to the “sins” of gay clergy. Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign (which has offices in San Francisco), said as long as gays are told in church that their lives are “sinful because of how they were born,” then “the church is sending a deeply harmful message.”
Still, the executive director of the U.S.-based New Ways Ministry said he was “overjoyed at the news.” Francis DeBernardo, whose group promotes justice and reconciliation for gays and the wider church community, said it was a welcome change from the negative comments about gays that he says have been coming from the Vatican for decades.
“For decades now, we’ve had nothing but negative comments about gay and lesbian people coming from the Vatican,” DeBernardo said.
In Italy, where politicians are generally sensitive to Vatican policy, Italy’s first openly gay governor, Nichi Vendola, urged fellow politicians to learn a lesson from the pope.
“I believe that if politics had one-millionth of the capacity to … listen that the pope does, it would be better able to help people who suffer,” he said.
Francis also said he wanted a greater role for women in the church, though he insisted that they cannot become priests.
He was funny and candid during the 82 minutes he spent with journalists on board the plane returning from Brazil. He didn’t dodge a single question, and even thanked the journalist who raised allegations contained in an Italian news magazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a gay tryst.
Francis said he investigated the allegations according to canon law and found nothing to back them up.
He took journalists to task for reporting on the matter, saying the allegations concerned matters of sin, not crimes like sexually abusing children. And when someone sins and confesses, he said, God not only forgives — but forgets.
“We don’t have the right to not forget,” he said.
Gov. Vendola, who leads the southern Puglia region, praised the pope for drawing a clear line between homosexuality and pedophilia.
“In only one blow, he carried out a very brilliant operation, separating the theme of homosexuality from that of pedophilia,” Vendola said in a chat with journalists. “We know that a part of reactionary clerical thought plays on the confusion between these two completely different categories.”
The directness of Francis’ comments suggested that he wants to put the matter of the monsignor behind him, while also setting a new tone of openness as he focuses on his key priority of reforming the Holy See bureaucracy.
Francis was also asked about reports suggesting that a group of gay clergymen exert undue influence on Vatican policy. Italian news media reported this year that the allegations of what they call the “gay lobby” contributed to Benedict’s decision to resign.
The term “gay lobby” is bandied about with abandon in the Italian media, and is decidedly vague. Interpretations of what it means have ranged from the benign concept of a group of celibate gay priests who are friends, to a suggestion that a group of sexually active gay priests use blackmail to exert influence on Vatican decision-making.
Stressing that Catholic social teaching calls for homosexuals to be treated with dignity and not marginalized, Francis said he would not condone anyone using private information for blackmail or to exert pressure.
“A lot is written about this ‘gay lobby. I still haven’t found anyone at the Vatican who has ‘gay’ on his business card,” Francis said, chuckling. “You have to distinguish between the fact that someone is gay and the fact of being in a ‘lobby.'”
The Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit author and commentator, saw the pope’s remarks as a sign of mercy.
“Today Pope Francis has, once again, lived out the Gospel message of compassion for everyone,” he said in an emailed statement.
Speaking in Italian with occasional lapses in his native Spanish, Francis dropped a few nuggets of news:
—He said he is thinking of traveling to the Holy Land next year and is considering invitations from Sri Lanka and the Philippines as well.
—The planned Dec. 8 canonizations of Popes John Paul II and John XXIII will likely be changed — perhaps until the weekend after Easter — because road conditions in December would be dangerously icy for people from John Paul II’s native Poland traveling to the ceremony by bus.
—And he solved the mystery that had been circulating since he was pictured boarding the plane to Rio carrying his own black bag, an unusual break from Vatican protocol.
“The keys to the atomic bomb weren’t in it,” Francis quipped. The bag, he said, contained a razor, a prayer book, his agenda and a book on St. Terese of Lisieux, to whom he is particularly devoted.
“It’s normal” to carry a bag when traveling, he said, stressing the style that separates him from other pontiffs, who until a few decades ago were carried around on platforms. “We have to get use to this being normal.”
Francis certainly showed a human touch during his trip to Rio, charming the masses at World Youth Day with his decision to forgo typical Vatican security so he could to get close to his flock. Francis traveled without the bulletproof popemobile, using instead a simple Fiat or open-sided car.
“There wasn’t a single incident in all of Rio de Janeiro in all of these days and all of this spontaneity,” Francis said, responding to concerns raised after his car was swarmed by an adoring mob when it took a wrong turn.
“I could be with the people, embrace them and greet them — without an armored car and instead with the security of trusting the people,” he said.
He acknowledged that there is always the chance that a “crazy” person could get to him; John Paul II was shot in 1981. But Francis said he preferred taking a risk than submitting to the “craziness” of putting an armored wall between a shepherd and his flock.
Francis’ news conference was remarkable and unprecedented: Pope John Paul II used to have on-board talks with journalists, but he would move about the cabin, chatting with individual reporters so it was hit-or-miss to hear what he said. After Benedict’s maiden foreign voyage, the Vatican insisted that reporters submit questions in advance so the theologian pope could choose three or four he wanted to answer with prepared comments.
For Francis, no question was off the table — no small thing given that he is known to distrust the mainstream news media and had told journalists en route to Rio that he greatly dislikes giving interviews because he finds them “tiresome.”
Francis spoke lovingly of his predecessor, saying that having him living in the Vatican “is like having a grandfather, a wise grandfather, living at home.” He said he regularly asks Benedict for advice, but dismissed suggestions that the German pontiff is exerting any influence on his papacy.
On the contrary, Francis said he has tried to encourage Benedict to participate more in public functions at the Vatican and receive guests, but that he is “a man of prudence.”
In one of his most important speeches delivered in Rio, Francis described the church in feminine terms, saying it would be “sterile” without women. Asked what role he foresees, he said the church must develop a more profound role for women in the church, though he said “the door is closed” to ordaining women to the priesthood.
He had harsh words for Monsignor Nunzio Scarano. The Vatican accountant has been jailed on accusations that he plotted to smuggle €20 million ($26 million) from Switzerland to Italy and is also accused by Italian prosecutors of using his Vatican bank account to launder money.
Francis said while “there are saints” in the Vatican bureaucracy, Scarano isn’t among them.
The Vatican bank has been a focus of Francis’ reform efforts, and he has named a commission to look into its activities amid accusations from Italian prosecutors that it has been used as an offshore tax haven to launder money.
Asked if closing the bank is a possibility, Francis said: “I don’t know how this story will end.”
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