Oakland Minister Offers New Rapture Date

OAKLAND (CBS News / AP) — The Bay Area religious radio host who had predicted the world would end on May 21, 2011 said that he was “flabbergasted” when the apocalypse didn’t arrive, but maintained Monday that his prophecy was simply off by five months.

Harold Camping, an 89-year-old fundamentalist minister and head of the Oakland-based Family Radio network, had led his Christian followers to believe last Saturday marked the Rapture. However, on Monday he contended that Judgment Day actually would now come on October 21.

Camping said he felt so terrible when his doomsday prediction did not come true on Saturday that he left his modest home in Alameda and took refuge in a motel with his wife.

Camping said he looked for answers – through frequent prayer and discussions with friends – as to why his prediction of the destruction of Earth had not come to pass.

“It has been really tough,” said Camping, a retired civil engineer and self-taught Biblical sage.

He had predicted that Saturday would bring with it “a big earthquake that will make the one in Japan seem like a Sunday school picnic,” claiming it would first strike Fiji and New Zealand, then work its way around the world.

Camping marketed his prophecy around the world through radio broadcasts in 84 languages, on RV caravans and on 1,200 billboards around the country.

Trumpeting the apocalypse didn’t come cheap either. Family Radio spent as much as $1 million on the billboard campaign, but it could afford to. Camping’s radio network has been valued at more than $117 million.

Some of Camping’s followers said they were surprised they were not swept up to heaven, after Camping had preached for years through his radio empire that the Rapture was coming on May 21.

Herbert Walker, 66, had been convinced by his daily readings of the Bible and Camping’s prediction that Saturday would’ve seen God bring chosen souls into heaven before a cataclysmic worldwide tribulation.

He was disappointed when that didn’t happen, he said, but planned to keep praying regularly in hopes that one day he’ll be counted among the saved. While he said his faith remained unshaken by the faulty prediction, Walker added that for now, he’s done with believing predictions.

“I’m still faithful to the Bible, because the Bible is the only word of God,” he said. “We can trust what the Bible says, not what men say.”

Camping had previously predicted the Rapture would occur back in 1994. When it didn’t, he explained that an error in his mathematical computations from clues in the Bible were to blame, and he later revised his forecast.

Along with the disappointment, believers who spent their savings to advertise the world’s end were now facing more earthly concerns.

“I’ve been mocked and scoffed and cursed at and I’ve been through a lot,” said Jeff Hopkins, 52, a former television producer who drove for days with a lighted sign proclaiming the end of the world on top of his car. “I was doing what I’ve been instructed to do through the Bible, but now I’ve been stymied. It’s like getting slapped in the face.”

Robert Fitzpatrick said he was surprised when the six o’clock hour simply came and went on Saturday. He too had spent his own money to put up advertising about the end of the world.

“I can’t tell you what I feel right now,” he said. “Obviously, I haven’t understood it correctly because we’re still here.”

Many followers said the delay was a further test from God to persevere in their faith.

“When you say something and it doesn’t happen, your pride is what’s hurt. But who needs pride? God said he resists the proud and gives grace to the humble,” said Family Radio’s special projects coordinator Michael Garcia, who had spent Saturday praying and drinking two last cups of coffee with his wife at home in Alameda.

Garcia added that he believed the delay was God’s way of separating true believers from those willing to doubt what he said were clear biblical warnings.

“Maybe this had to happen for there to be a separation between those who have faith and those who don’t,” he said. “It’s highly possible that our Lord is delaying his coming.”

Gunther Von Harringa, who heads a religious organization that produces content for Camping’s media enterprise, said he too was “very surprised” the Rapture did not happen as predicted, but noted that he and other believers were in good spirits.

“It hasn’t shaken my faith, and we’re still searching the Scriptures to understand why it did not happen,” said Von Harringa, president of EBible Fellowship, which he operates from his home. “It’s just a matter of OK, Lord, where do we go from here?”

Apocalyptic thinking has always been part of American religious life and popular culture. Teachings about the end of the world vary dramatically — even within faith traditions — about how they will occur.

Still, the overwhelming majority of Christians reject the idea that the exact date or time of Jesus’ return can be predicted.

Tim LaHaye, co-author of the best-selling “Left Behind” novels about the end times, recently called Camping’s prediction “not only bizarre but 100 percent wrong!” He cited the bible verse Matthew 24:36, ‘but about that day or hour no one knows” except God.

“While it may be in the near future, many signs of our times certainly indicate so, but anyone who thinks they ‘know’ the day and the hour is flat out wrong,” LaHaye wrote on his Web site, leftbehind.com.

(© 2011 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.)

Comments

One Comment

  1. Adam says:

    The most ridiculous bunch of B.S. I ever heard! Your fearless leader was wrong a 2nd time! He is nothing more than a cult leader. The bible itself says only HE knows the end times. The errogance of a mortal man thinking he can know the end time is NOT following god’s ways!

  2. Joe holiday says:

    I am the person responsible for making animal control reverse their desicion to
    Let the moron tinker kill all his pets –/ thank you kpix for showing up and embarrassing them
    Just another scam artist using a book for the superstitious to make money – these morons will believe anything they are told – since of course he has been wrong , umm twice now – and since the end of the world has been predicted since before the bible was even thought of – yes there are written records more than 3000 years – since These scam artists are of course wrong every time, the morons will believe in the scam artists even more. they will
    Come up with another date as soon as he starts going through the 20 million he has taken from the morons – I guess it’s better than taking money from cancer victims

  3. Victor says:

    I blame partially on the media for giving us this untrue “end of the world” news in the first place.

    1. Hassan Ben Sober says:

      You’re right Victor – the newswires picked up on this and ran with it.
      If they had not, this fringe group would not have even made a ripple.

  4. Bloodhounds says:

    I still can’t believe ANYONE believed this guy! He’s 89, his last day is any day! Another con ripping people off! Everyone has lost some $ here and there but to actually fund this crazy guy’s prediction is beyond my comprehension! I’m not the smartest person but it sure feels great not being the dumbest! God help this country!

    1. Juanita says:

      LOL this comment was great! I’m glad I’m not the dumbest either….LOL

    2. Tiffanyann says:

      The people that believed this man were probably lost, desperate, and depressed, and didn’t know where to turn. It’s just too bad this crazy man had to help them first before they found someone normal. Now that he is exposed, I hope everyone learns something from this in their own way.

      1. The Truth says:

        Finally, this has been a perfect illustration of both sides of the argument. I have presented my points, backed them up with logic, reason and fact over and over again.

        In response to those points, the Christians have come on, called me names (which is the antithesis to the book they “supposedly” worship) and they haven’t offered up any counterpoints whatsoever of real substance.

        Instead of the Christians standing up and saying, “Those are some good points for me to at least think about” they choose to put their fingers in their ears and scream “La-la-la-la;-la” at the top of their lungs as to not hear any information that contradicts their current belief schema that they’ve already been brainwashed with.

        My goal here is not “convert” people to agnosticism, atheism, etc. My goal is simply to get people to think for themselves. I grew up Catholic from Day 1 and so I was brainwashed from Day 1. Yet when you are in that environment, it is hard to realize that was taking place. As time went on, I started to question things, but in the end, I’d always end up back with the Church because of the fear and guilt they instilled in me from an early age. Items that started pushing me over the edge were the fact that I realized that they were only giving me part of the story. They NEVER talked about contradictions and instead just “spun” the stories as they saw fit. They also never taught all of the Bible, just the parts they cherry picked out. My brother became a Born-Again Christian and I remember asking him, “What happens if a child is born in the mountains of Tibet and never hears about the Bible before he/she dies.” He immediately responded back with, “They go to hell.” This seemed so absurd to me that I started to think more and more about religion as a whole. Then when I finally realized how hypocritical the Church was, I realized that I could no longer in good conscience be associated with them (and I doubt Jesus would want to be associated with them at this point either).

        Now keep in mind, this was NOT an easy move to make. I had a ton of fear and guilt looming over me. Yet as time went on, I realized I was MUCH happier not being held under their proverbial thumb. You have just as good of a chance of “correctly” interpreting the Bible as do I or as does the Pope or as does a homeless man living in a dumpster. With that in mind, there was no need for me to allow them to have their thoughts dictate my life. Just because I don’t have the label “Catholic” or “Christian” associated with me, doesn’t prevent me from still doing good works. I never realized how heavy of a burden that guilt and fear was until I removed it.

        In the end, there are countless viewpoints that we can hold. I want to challenge my viewpoints constantly. 90%+ of the time when I listen to and/or read expert viewpoints on various subjects, they are from the opposite side of what I currently believe is most likely the case. I no longer have the need to have continual repitition from a bunch of people that agree with my point of view. What good does that do me? I want to read people who disagree with me in order to attempt to prove my own beliefs to be false. If my beliefs were false, then I change my belief schema to get back in touch with reality… it does me no good whatsoever to hold false beliefs. Thus, challenging one’s belief schema is really a win/win scenario. It is a shame that most current Christians are afraid to wholeheartedly attempt that win/win scenario of challenging their beliefs for themselves. The fear of what they might discover (the world of reality) keeps them living in delusion.

        In any event, sincere warm wishes to everyone on both sides of the debate.

        Peace!

    3. The Truth says:

      Bloodhounds Writes: “God help this country!” The best thing God could do to help this country is to eradicate all religion off the face of the planet and let human beings see each other as equals instead of better than another group, simply because one group believes in a “better” thousand+ year old book full of fairy tales.

      How many times have Christians attended a Mormon Temple? What about a Muslim Mosque? What about a Hindu Temple? What about a Jewish Synagogue? (And of course vice-versa for other faiths.) How can anyone possibly know for certain that they’ve found the “right” religion while not experiencing the others that millions upon millions of others find to be their salvation? If they haven’t, then they are the person that sits there and insists that Pepsi tastes better than Coke, but they have only tried the Pepsi and never the Coke. Yet, they will be steadfast in their belief that Pepsi is better despite having no conclusive first hand experience to prove otherwise. Thus, the ENTIRE argument is invalid.

      When they come to the realization that if they were born in Iran that they would have the EXACT same zeal for Muhammad and Allah that they do for Jesus and God, then that will be a big awakening for them. If they were born in India, they’d have the same zeal for Vishnu, Shiva and Brahma that they have for Jesus/God. If they were born in Tibet, they would have the same zeal for Buddha that they have for Jesus/God. So what does that say about the book they worship (when they wouldn’t have worshiped it based solely on geographic location of birth and religion of their parents)? To deny it is to deny the truth. After all, the Truth Shall Set You Free.

      Peace.

      1. david says:

        You criticise other’s faith yet you have faith in yourself that you’re take on reality and your reliance on science and logic is the accurate…you have a religion all of your own yet you proclaim that all religion be eradicated. You’re arrogant to make such a presumption that you’re right and everyone who has faith is an idiot don’t you see the contempt you pour out on others my its very nature must also be visitied upon you based on your proclamations????

      2. The Truth says:

        LOL… David, you never even learned proper grammar and you’re lecturing me. That’s pretty darn funny. Read what I said about religion and IQ elsewhere on here as you help to provide further evidence to support it.

        Additionally, science is NOT a religion. Science is based on facts and logic. Religion is based on superstition and faith (just like those that believe in Santa Claus).

        If you’d properly understand science, then perhaps you’d have a different perspective.

        Cheers!

  5. dead_than_red says:

    Maybe, he just wasn’t one of the chosen 200 million. Not sure what made him think he would be. Maybe, he’s doomed, just like the rest of us.

  6. George says:

    This idiot is a charlatan, first and foremost. If he truly knows and understands his scripture then he will know Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only!!!

    He is dangerous and a menace to society for his false prophecies. He needs to remove himself from his soapbox and repent to the LORD!

    1. TT says:

      Actually George, before calling him an “idiot” in the same breath as you run around cherry-picking scripture and try to spin off as reality, you should be aware of the following:

      Studies have shown that the more someone believes in God, the lower their IQ level. Atheists have the highest IQ’s, followed by Agnostics, followed by casual believers and with hard core believers coming in dead last. And the group that believed in God the most was…. yep, grade school children who also believe in Santa Claus and the Boogeyman. Thus, God created his so called “chosen people” as the least intelligent segment of society. Why would he do that?

      So which of those 4 groups do you feels best fits you? It doesn’t appear to be the atheist nor agnostic groups, so I think the rest is self-evident.

      Peace!

      1. Dee Fyne says:

        My IQ is 148, so there goes your theory – *nyah* *nyah*!

      2. The Truth says:

        Dee Fyne writes: “My IQ is 148, so there goes your theory – *nyah* *nyah*!”

        Three points here:

        1) Intelligent people don’t have to boast their IQ as it should already be self-evident to others via your words and thought process.

        2) The mere fact that you can’t understand the concept of “averages” pretty much shoots down that 148 self-proclamation. If you understood this concept, then you never would have made such a daft comment in the first place.

        3) Take your 148 number, divide by 2 and subtract 4 and then you’re probably pretty close to the real number.

        Thanks for playing.

        Peace!

  7. Juanita says:

    I’m flabbergasted as well. “No man knows the day or the hour.” This man actually needs a mental evaluation. Seriously! How does he hold up a bible and still does not follow what it says. So to all of his followers read Matthew 7:15. BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHINGS…… God did say that……… And you still followed this insane individual.

  8. G. says:

    I CAN’T FIND MY NEIGHBOR, HE IS A GREAT GUY WITH A KIND HEART. i THINK THAT IT HAPPENED AND WE JUST HAVE NOT REALIZED IT YET. TWILIGHT ZONE OR HEAVY DRUGS. NOT SURE?

    O’YA WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MONEY HE HAS MADE? IS HE RETURNING IT?

  9. Jim Beam says:

    God postponed the rapture. With theese outrageous gas prices it would have cost him way too much to ferry everyone’s souls to heaven. He’s now doing an environmental study on a toll lane that is expected to be completed in late 2014.

  10. Gary says:

    Whenever people believe what a “person” states over the actual words in the Bible (especially when they’re in conflict), you’re going to be in for disappointment and regret. This has been stated so many times for so many years, yet people continue rallying behind men (or a woman) to anchor their belief and trust in. However, if you thought this event was big, there is at least one more very prominent false prophet yet to come on the scene that will dwarf Mr. Camping. Unfortunately this one – most all of you and the majority of the world will believe! He won’t be predicting disaster, but rather peace – even for the Middle East.

    1. The Truth says:

      Gary writes, “Whenever people believe what a “person” states over the actual words in the Bible (especially when they’re in conflict), you’re going to be in for disappointment and regret.”

      LOL… really Gary? Let’s test that theory of yours:

      The Bible states: “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life”

      The Bible states: “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”

      The Bible states: “Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death”

      The Bible state (in Jesus’ own words): “Go, SELL EVERYTHING YOU HAVE and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

      The Bible states that no uncirc-umcised person will ever enter Jerusalem.

      The Bible COMMANDS you to kill countless people. A brief sampling of those include: Kill people who work on Sundays, kill hom-os-exuals, kill family members that don’t believe in your God, if you catch anyone breaking God’s law you are to stone them to death, kill anyone who commits adultery, etc, etc, etc.

      *****

      So yeah Gary, you should always follow the words in that 2K year old book written by uneducated men (many of which would have believed the Earth to be flat).

      It’s not often that I get the opportunity to chat with someone like yourself that apparently condones slavery, beating slaves, killing kids that curse at their parents, has sold EVERYTHING you own to follow Jesus (amazing how you have a computer though), that no one who has ever been “snipped down there” has ever entered Jerusalem, killing all sorts of people, etc, etc, etc… Congrats on holding that delusional mental schema.

      Finally, we can disprove your theory right now (as if the others weren’t enough for you): Matthew 19 explicitly states – “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about ANYTHING you ask for, it WILL be done for you by my Father in heaven.” OK, so myself and my friend with me are now asking for World Peace and for all hunger to eradicated instantly… WHAT? We are still at war? There are still hungry? Who would have thought?

      In fact, MILLIONS of Christians (not just two) pray for precisely those things every weekend, yet despite the Bible overtly stating that it WILL be done, of course it never happens. Therefore, a rational person realizes that the Bible is not 100% valid.

      If people would stop praying and start “doing” instead, our society would be much better off. If every Christian spent that hour (or two hours+ when you factor in getting dressed, driving, talking afterward, etc) they are in Church every week to instead use that same time to go out and help the needy, the world would be a much better place.

      Peace!

  11. Sean says:

    I know the real end of the world date? It took me a while to find out though, after you paypal me your life savings to show me you are a true believer i will tell you. This is a secret or it wont happen this time!!

  12. Trevor Jacobson says:

    This man is an ass. But a pretty big genius. Profiting off of how stupid some people can be. If there is a rapture. I’m pretty sure he’s not coming with xD

  13. joe says:

    he now says oct 21 is the new date. give me a break…

  14. Ed Ching says:

    Those who will follow Camping’s new date now will be as morons as he is. May we all pray double time and triple time for their senses to get back to normal. Satan has already controlled them! They can’t claim or quote God for their actions. They need our prayers and let them know God still loves them if they will repent and go back to the ways of the Father.

    1. The Truth says:

      Hi Ed,

      Regarding “needing our prayers:”

      The facts are that numerous studies have been done by some of the world’s most prestigious groups (Mayo Clinic, Duke University Medical Center, Harvard, American Heart Association, etc) that show that prayer clearly does NOT work. If you think otherwise, then I suppose you must be more educated than they are (and the Mayo Clinic has strong religious affiliations with one of the main hospitals named St. Mary’s).

      Since you think prayer really works: How many amputees has God/Jesus miraculously cured? There are so many “miracles” that happen, yet it is amazing how not one amputee has spontaneously regrown a limb. I guess God hates amputees.

      The Bible says you if two or more of you pray to God, your requests WILL be answered without question. My friend and I just prayed for instantaneous world peace… yet “amazingly” it didn’t happen. But hey, the graveyards are full of devout Christians who prayed to God for good health.

      Instead of wasting your time praying, go out and DO good works that will ACTUALLY help others. As the old saying goes, “Actions speak louder than words.”

      *********

      Now on to this notion about Satan taking over, let’s learn some facts about the Biblical Satan:

      According to the Bible itself, God killed FAR more people than the “evil” Satan. Most people are shocked to learn about how many people the devil actually killed. In the Bible, the number of SPECIFIC references to the number of people that God killed is in excess of 2.3 Million.

      None of that even accounts for abstract events such as “the flood,” then that number is likely in excess of 30 Million people.

      And how many people has the devil killed? The answer is 10. Not 10 Million, not 10 Thousand, but rather 10. ….. That’s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

      Even more ironic is that the 10 people that he killed were in a “bet” of sorts with God with regard to Job and his family, so God was directly implicated in those as well.

      So looking at the final specific tally that is most favorable to God, it is:

      God Killed: 2,300,000+
      Satan Killed: 10

      Don’t shoot the messenger… I’m only reporting what the Bible says.

      Moreover, this whole notion of Satan taking over is absurd. If Satan REALLY wanted to control the people on this planet, then Satan would have written the Bible (and other various religious texts) himself and gained control of all the major religions. And no matter how hard you try, you CAN NOT say that you know that Satan didn’t write the Bible because you weren’t there. Thus, you might be believing in a book written by the Devil himself… especially considering how many people the Bible COMMANDS you to kill.

      Peace!

  15. Seafleet says:

    Please CBS are you that desperate for sensationalist news that you have to resort to this Garbage.
    TV News stations in the USA suck for content and above all accuracy its all about getting the viewing numbers up regardless of facts and TRUTH.
    This topic has to be the biggest suck trash so far this year and they insult us by broadcasting it.
    How sad and the COE of the news division probably earns millions!! give us folk who have some inteligence a break CBS

  16. Nelson Tan Bonifacio says:

    i love this guy.

  17. Lightfeather says:

    “I’m still faithful to the Bible, because the Bible is the only word of God,” he said. “We can trust what the Bible says, not what men say.”

    But men wrote the Bible! Men from a long time ago who are long turned to dust. You are trusting their word alone that the words you read come from God. The whole thing is a sham to control people. Look how well it’s working!

  18. Doomer4Sure says:

    Get real, everyone knows the Earth is ending December 21 2012. Or could the Myans’ pen have just ran out of ink?

    1. The Truth says:

      LOL Doomer! 🙂

      With regard to 2012, let me tell you what will happen for 100% certain: The week of Dec 21, 2012 Christian Churches will be PACKED with people praying just in case the world does indeed end.

      The irony will be hilarious watching people who believe in something COMPLETELY different than the Mayans praying for salvation from their God, especially considering that the Bible states that people shall have no other gods. No hypocrisy there. So what will they be there for? They’ll be there because they are religious fanatics who just make up whatever they want to in their own minds and justify it using the Bible (which can justify anything from beating children to murder to slavery),

      In any event, if something does happen in 2012, the Christians will say, “You should have repented. I told you so” (despite it not being their religion predicting the end) and otherwise people will be packed in Churches several days later on Christmas where the message from the pulpit will be: “See… Jesus saves, not the Mayans.”

      They’ve got all their bases “conveniently” covered as usual.

      Peace!

  19. mm says:

    HA HA HA ” the lunatic is on the grass”

    Imagine there is no heaven, it isn’t hard to do….

    Coming soon ” truth” through empirical means

  20. donald says:

    Put a witches hat on him..and he looks like the witch from the wizard of oz!

  21. NIC Smith says:

    THIS FROM A BOOK WRITTEN BY DESERT DWELLERS FOR WHOM A WHEELBARROW WOULD HAVE BEEN A TECHNOLOGICAL BREAK THROUGH;
    CHILLING TO THINK THAT PEOPLE BUY INTO THIS PRECOGNITIVE DELUSIONAL MORASS.

  22. The Truth says:

    Juantia and Adam… LOL.

    Juanita says, “This man actually needs a mental evaluation.”

    Well Juanita, so does EVERYONE that believes in religion. Religious beliefs are delusional in contrast to reality and delusion is a mental illness as defined by the DSM IV.

    Adam writes: “The errogance of a mortal man thinking he can know the end time is NOT following god’s ways!”

    Yes Adam, the “errogance” indeed. LOL Actually, Adam, if man wanted to, we could destroy all human life on the planet ANY TIME WE WANT TO via the use of nuclear and chemical weapons. So I guess that makes man God.

    The Bible is an antiquated book written by uneducated men 2K years ago who believed the Earth to be flat. The facts are that a 5th grader today knows more about the world that we live in than did the uneducated people who wrote the Bible. It is ironic that you would NEVER let a 5th grader dictate the course of your life, but when it comes to the Bible, then it all of the sudden “magically” becomes OK to do so. It is absolutely mind-boggling.

    If you believe God is intelligent, then you’d realize that he could have never written the Bible because it is riddled with errors. It is a slap in the face of God’s intelligence to even think he could have written something that I wouldn’t have even received a “C” in my English class on because it has so many errors in it.

    I went to elite faith based schools for 12 years, so it’s not like I don’t know and understand your side of the argument because I’ve been there myself.

    The Bible isn’t clear about hardly anything… in fact it contradicts itself starting in THE VERY FIRST TWO CHAPTERS of Genesis when the order of creation is mixed up to having only 2 of the 4 Gospel writers bothering to talk about the birth of Jesus (and those two accounts conflict with each other while also providing timelines which make it IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to have been born based on their accounts) to 3 of the 4 Gospel writers not agreeing on what the final words of Jesus were. If I saw the Son of God die right in front me, I think I’d remember his last words verbatim…. wouldn’t you?

    Moreover, Jesus had 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters. Isn’t it is pretty interesting that Jesus’ brothers didn’t follow him around everywhere… I know that if my brother were the Son of God, I’d always be at his side every second of the day. Yet apparently, they didn’t deem it to be of uber importance. But hey, who wants to insert common sense into one’s reading of the Bible?

    I was commenting on a religious site awhile back (that severely limited post sizes) and produced a “short list” of Biblical contradictions and false prophecies from BOTH the NT and OT. You can feel free to read the list below (scroll down once you get there).

    h**p://uscatholic.yuku.com/topic/51/

    So if you think God is so daft as to not even understand and “cover” the basic tenets provided in the link above, then more power to you. I’d tend to think that if there is a Creator, he/she/it would have MASSIVE intelligence. Therefore, to think God wrote the Bible is beyond naive. Thus, to follow something that is naive… well, I’ll let you figure that part out on your own.

    Peace!

    1. Sarah says:

      I’m sorry but, I find your comment incredible rude. Nobody knows if their right or wrong. Nobody knows the truth. I am not religious and I don’t have any religious beliefs, but I would never in a million years think about putting someone down because they have faith. If you want to be respected for not believing than you have to respect that some people do believe. There are many many reaosns to believe but, you would never take the time to reserach that would you? You only want to put down and disprove.

    2. Jef13BC says:

      Thank You for this Truth!!! I’m glad the voice of reason is growing and becoming stronger in our world after so long stifled by religion and fanatics like this bozo!!

    3. Missy says:

      Truth, I think you are the one that needs to be put in a mental institution. Wow! You are off your rocker!

    4. The Truth says:

      Hi Sarah:

      I want to share a story… a “parable” if you will.

      Back when there was a little ‘The Truth,’ he used to believe in many things. Hmmm… there was the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, the Boogeyman (friggin’ older brothers) and Santa Claus to name a handful.

      But for the purposes here, I’ll focus in on Santa. Everyone here believed in Santa Claus at one point in time unless your parents told you otherwise and then even still you probably still believed in him even briefly just based on friends at school who told you that you were wrong and that Santa did exist.

      So why did we believe in Santa? We believed in him because of FAITH. We had faith that the Easter Bunny would come and bring us goodies. We had faith that the Tooth Fairy would leave us money under our pillows once the baby teeth starting falling out. In fact, some believed in this so much, they used the old string on the door to try and get it out faster so the Tooth Fairy would come earlier. And of course we had faith that every Christmas, Santa would come, but only the “good” boys and girls were truly rewarded.

      Doesn’t that last line sound familiar? We had faith in someone and the “good” ones received the rewards? Plus Santa “always knew” if you were naughty or nice. Sound familiar again? Yep, it is just like the Bible stories. Despite there being no evidence, believe anyway and if you are good, you get rewarded and God always knows what you are doing and have done. The biggest difference is that if you are bad, Santa doesn’t send you to hell.

      Thus, as a little ‘The Truth,’ I started to wonder about Santa. The cookies and milk were always gone as were those carrots for the reindeer. Seemed like decent evidence to support Santa’s existence. Yet, I never noticed the sound of Santa or his sled on the roof despite being awake and listening for him. I started asking questions and a new “tradition” was born at my house. That new tradition was every Christmas Eve, we’d go out and look at this one street where literally every house was lit up spectacularly. When we would get back, Santa would have come.

      In the beginning, I never noticed that one of my family members was always left behind (sick, needed to cook, on the phone, couldn’t come over till later, etc). But then I started asking more questions such as “How come he comes here on Christmas Eve, but everyone else gets theirs on Christmas Day?” I got answers. My parents were masters at this. They would say things like ‘Think about how many kids there are and Santa has to do it all by himself. We are on the beginning of his route.” Of course, I bought into it.

      The next year the questions got tougher as I noticed that there were no boot marks from the dirty fireplace on the clean carpet leading to the tree. They made up more excuses for this.
      The next year, they were ready for me saying that the person who stayed home actually got his picture taken with Santa in our house. I asked to see the pictures and they said he didn’t show up on the film roll so they threw it away. I bought it again, but hey, that’s what happens when you are young and gullible.

      The next year, they topped themselves. They had my brother (who stayed home) standing next to the fireplace with his arm around Santa. Of course in the picture, there was no Santa, just my brother standing there holding his arm around an “imaginary” person. (Santa is invisible on film, remember?)

      As time went on, I asked more and more questions and got better and better responses. I was slowly but surely catching on though and then the one thing caught my eye. Santa had the EXACT same handwriting as my mom!!! lol Amazingly, they came up with an excuse on the spot that Santa could change handwriting styles otherwise how would he address packages in other countries in different languages.

      I was getting more and more skeptical, but they kept me in line with the fear that Santa wouldn’t come if I doubted him. (Hmmmm…. the use of fear to keep people in line.)

      In any event, I eventually figured it out when I realized that there were too many coincidences put together and one Christmas I demanded that EVERYONE come out to look at the lights and saw that they were making too many excuses and that pushed it over the top.

      So what’s my point? My point is that faith is great. I loved my childhood years and to be deprived of Christmas would have changed my childhood a lot. But in the end, fact overtook faith. And rightfully so. JUST STOP AND IMAGINE if I went walking around at my office telling everyone that Santa is real and believed it!!!

      So why don’t people see the facts here? The same errors my family made in their story as it got more elaborate are the same types of errors found throughout the Bible. So what? Should I still have “faith” that Santa exists despite there being no proof of a man with a white beard who can fly all over the planet with land animals leading the way and give every single “good” boy and girl gifts that little tiny elves make? Absolutely not. So why should I have faith that Moses existed when there is zero outside information supporting it? Why should I believe in a book that is riddled with error after error?

      Ooops… only half a year away from Christmas…. I better stop now as Santa is “always watching.” 😉

      So you say that no one should be questioned about their “Faith.” Well, if you believe that to be true, then you aren’t helping anyone. If you had someone in your office running up and down the hallways proclaiming Santa was real, you’d just let him/her be delusional at their own expense? As for my wanting to “disprove,” no one can. You can not disprove a negative and that is precisely why Christians always have an “out” via their mental schemas.

      Cheers!

    5. The Truth says:

      Jef13BC writes: “Thank You for this Truth!!! I’m glad the voice of reason is growing and becoming stronger in our world after so long stifled by religion”

      Thanks Jef. Here’s the best part: There is an immense amount of hope for those of us on this side of the aisle. That hope revolves around the fact that as our society becomes more and more educated with the advancement of the Internet, old world superstitions such as organized religion will begin to fade away. Each new generation will be less likely to believe in 2K year old books and instead believe in the compassion and “Golden Rule” of humanity.

      When people of my generation and previous generations were indoctrinated, there wasn’t an Internet to hop onto in order to compare and contrast religions. The was no Internet to hear the opposing viewpoint of what one’s pastor/priest/minister/rabbi/imam/etc was insisting to be “the truth.”

      The future generations will have the Internet on their side. Younger people tend to have more malleable minds while older generations tend to be more stuck in their existing ways and belief schemas. Now younger generations will be able to see how these items being taught to them in Church simply do not stand up to the pillars of logic and reason.

      It is only a matter of time before our side starts gaining more and more momentum.

      Cheers!

    6. The Truth says:

      Missy writes: “Truth, I think you are the one that needs to be put in a mental institution. Wow! You are off your rocker!”

      LOL… yes, spoken like a true Christian. Can you kindly point me to the part in the Bible where Jesus tells people with opposing viewpoints that they belong in a mental institution? Yep, that’s what I thought.

      It is so much fun when people on my side of the argument get to teach Christians about their OWN Bible that they are supposedly worshipping.

      The Bible lists out all the ways to get into Heaven. One of them is when Jesus says to SELL EVERYTHING YOU OWN. Have you done that Missy? In the OT, God commands you to kill hom-se-xuals, kill people who work on Sunday, etc. Do you do those things Missy? Of course not and do you know why? The answer is because you cherry-pick out the parts of the Bible that YOU WANT to believe in and ignore the rest. You claim to worship God, but then INTENTIONALLY won’t do what is commanded of you. It’s hilarious.

      Moreover, notice that Missy can’t refute the list contradictions I provided a link to. In fact, she adds NOTHING to the conversation except for second grade name calling. Classic!

      But don’t feel bad Missy, no one else can refute those points either. And just like you, they will move forward and pretend that they don’t exist in order to live in the bliss that is brainwashed religion. I’d encourage you to keep an open mind because the only person who benefits by challenging your existing belief schema is YOU.

      Good luck!

      Peace!

  23. The Truth says:

    The atheists should just get together and fund Jack Kevorkian showing up at Harold Camping’s door on October 21st.

    This will kill two birds with one stone (pun possibly intended):

    1) It will make Camping’s dream prediction true, thus justifying his “research.”

    2) The world’s collective IQ will rise ever so subtly immediately after Jack’s work is done there.

    ******

    As the classic saying goes, “Religion: Giving hope to those living in a world torn apart by religion.”

    Cheers!

    1. Ha says:

      The Truth, STOP. You are embarrassing yourself. Get back on your MEDS and get back to the looney bin. They are looking for you.

      1. The Truth says:

        LOL Ha… name calling! Spoken like a true Christian! Can you point me to the passages in the Bible where Jesus commands you to tell others they belong in the looney bin? Yep, that’s what I thought.

        So basically in just one line, you put your hypocrisy on full display. Congrats on that!

        And of course, you didn’t add anything of substance to this debate because you can’t. Classic!

        Peace!

  24. Sean Walsh says:

    Some people should not be allowed to be off of their Meds!

    1. The Truth says:

      Wow Sean… name calling! Spoken like a true Christian! Can you point me to the passages in the Bible where Jesus commands you to name call others? Yep, that’s what I thought.

      So basically in just one line, you put your hypocrisy on full display. Congrats on that!

      And of course, you didn’t add anything of substance to this debate because you can’t. Classic!

      Peace!

  25. Tenderheart says:

    Matthew 24:36, ‘but about that day or hour no one knows” except God.

    As a spiritual Christian, not a political one, I actually have donated to this organization. I wish I knew then what I know now. $$$ six or seven figures for advertising this Barnum & Bailey show? Really? … Besides his very human delusion, Camping has very human qualities – based in fraud & hypocrisy.

  26. Bal T'san Chin says:

    All news media – you helped create this – how about getting OFF it already!?

  27. arthur says:

    he’s not surprised because his bank account doubled by his followers/suckers that believed the “flimflam man”. Non profet my butt he made a parden the ex pression a killing. the IRS should check this guy out real carefull like.

    1. Steven Torrey says:

      He deserves more critical quewstioning than Don Knapp gave. This ‘preacher’ is a con man who swindeled millions of dollars predicting what is not in the Bible; there is no Biblical formula for predicting the end of the world. This preachere is a swindeler.

  28. Tlu says:

    The average IQ is 100, that’s right, 100. These “sheeple” are easily led and about as sharp as a bowling ball. Unfortunately, there will always be someone to lead their money away from their pocketbooks.

    The money should be returned or given to charity. He should be arrested for false advertising and/or fraud. Period.

  29. Just sayin' says:

    People that claim to be religious are all nut cases.

  30. Respect says:

    To “The Truth”, Get back on your meds ASAP! You are a joke to us all.

    1. The Truth says:

      LOL “Respect”… you resort to name calling and 2nd grade put downs! Spoken like a true Christian! Can you point me to the passages in the Bible where Jesus commands you to attempt to demean others? Yep, that’s what I thought.

      So basically in just one line, you put your hypocrisy on full display. Congrats on that!

      And of course, you didn’t add anything of substance to this debate because you can’t. Classic!

      Perhaps you should change your handle to “Disrespect” as that would be far more apropos.

      Peace!

  31. D says:

    What kind of follower of God would spend $1+ million advertising the end of the world while there are people starving in this world? Respect your seniors, they say, but this man is an idiot.

    1. The Truth says:

      D writes: “What kind of follower of God would spend $1+ million advertising the end of the world while there are people starving in this world?”

      Check out the chair that the Bishop of Los Angeles sits on. It is made of wood and cost $1M! I’m sure Jesus would be stoked knowing that is how his money is being spent. Not even Oprah nor Bill Gates would own a million dollar chair. I’ve been to the Vatican and their artwork alone could feed all the hungry in Africa if it were sold, but of course, they could never part with their worldly treasures. LOL

      People need to stop believing in these bogus religions (whether is some nut case like Camping or whether it some nut cases like the Catholic Church) and get off their butts, get their hands dirty and REALLY help those in need.

      Cheers D!

  32. grumpy old lady says:

    What will Camping say on Oct. 22nd when the world is still here? That will be his 3rd strike. Hopefully he will realize he has struck out, though fanatics rarely realize anything if they didn’t say or think it.

  33. The Truth says:

    Short list of Biblical contradictions:

    SOME OLD TESTAMENT CONTRADICTIONS:

    #1) The contradictions start in the opening chapters of the Bible, where inconsistent creation stories are told. Genesis chapter 1 says the first man and woman were made at the same time and after the animals. But Genesis chapter 2 gives a different order of creation: man, then the animals and then woman.

    #2) Genesis chapter 1 lists six days of creation, whereas chapter 2 refers to the “day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.” Genesis 1:2-3 claims that God created light and divided it from darkness on the first day; but Genesis 1:14-19 tells us the sun, moon, and stars weren’t made until the fourth day.

    #3) Chapter 1 reports that the fruit trees were created before the man, while chapter 2 indicates they were made after him. Genesis 1:20 says the fowl were created out of the waters; Genesis 2:19 alleges they were formed from the ground.

    #4) Contradictions are also seen in the biblical story of a worldwide flood. According to Genesis 6:19-22, God ordered Noah to bring “of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort . . . into the ark.” Nevertheless, Genesis 7:2-3 relates that the Lord ordered Noah to take into the ark the clean beasts and the birds by sevens and only the unclean beasts by twos.

    #5) Genesis 8:4 reports that, as the waters of the flood receded, Noah’s ark rested on the mountains of Ararat in the seventh month. The very next verse says the mountaintops could not be seen until the tenth month.

    #6) Genesis 8:13 describes the earth as being dry on the first day of the first month. But Genesis 8:14 informs us the earth was not dry until the twenty-seventh day of the second month.

    #7) The Old Testament contains an interesting contradiction in the story of the census taken by King David and the resulting punishment of the Israelites. God was so angered by the census that he sent a plague that killed 70,000 men. According to II Samuel 24:1, the Lord had caused David to take the census which makes the punishment appear even more nonsensical. But an attempt was later made in I Chronicles 21:1 to improve God’s image by claiming that Satan incited the census.

    #8) Further, the Old Testament is contradictory as to whether the Lord commanded the Israelites to sacrifice animals to him. In Jeremiah 7:22, God denies he ever gave the Israelites commandments about animal sacrifices. In contrast, Exodus 29:38-42 and many other verses depict God as requiring the Israelites to offer animal sacrifices.

    SOME NEW TESTAMENT CONTRADICTIONS:

    #9) In the New Testament, there are contradictions between the genealogies of Jesus given in the first chapter of Matthew and the third chapter of Luke. Both genealogies begin with Jesus’ father, who is identified as Joseph (which is curious considering that Mary was supposedly impregnated by the Holy Spirit). But Matthew says Joseph’s father was Jacob, while Luke claims he was Heli.

    #10) Matthew lists 26 generations between Jesus and King David, whereas Luke records 41. Matthew runs Jesus’ line of descent through David’s son Solomon, while Luke has it going through David’s son Nathan.

    #11) The story of Jesus’ birth is also contradictory. Matthew 2:13-15 depicts Joseph and Mary as fleeing to Egypt with the baby Jesus immediately after the wise men from the east had brought gifts. But Luke 2:22-40 claims that after the birth of Jesus, his parents remained in Bethlehem for the time of Mary’s purification (which was 40 days, under the Mosaic law). Afterwards, they brought Jesus to Jerusalem “to present him to the Lord,” and then returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke mentions no journey into Egypt or visit by wise men from the east.

    #12) Concerning the death of Judas, the disloyal disciple, Matthew 27:5 states he took the money he had received for betraying Jesus, threw it down in the temple and “went and hanged himself.” To the contrary, Acts 1:18 claims Judas used the money to purchase a field and “falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst and all his bowels gushed out.”

    #13) In describing Jesus being led to his execution, John 19:17 recounts that he carried his own cross. But Mark 15:21-23 disagrees by saying a man named Simon carried the cross.

    #14) As for the crucifixion, Matthew 27:44 tells us Jesus was taunted by both criminals who were being crucified with him. But Luke 23:39-43 relates that only one of the criminals taunted Jesus, the other criminal rebuked the one who was doing the taunting and Jesus told the criminal who was defending him, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

    #15) Regarding the last words of Jesus while on the cross, Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 quote Jesus as crying with a loud voice, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Luke 23:46 gives his final words as: “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.” John 19:30 alleges the last words were: “It is finished.”

    #16) There are even contradictions in the accounts of the resurrection which is the supposed event that is the very foundation of the Christian religion. Mark 16:2 states that on the day of the resurrection, certain women arrived at the tomb at the rising of the sun. But John 20:1 informs us they arrived when it was yet dark.

    #17) Luke 24:2 describes the tomb as open when the women arrived, whereas Matthew 28:1-2 indicates it was closed.

    #18) Mark 16:5 declares that the women saw a young man at the tomb. Luke 24:4 says they saw two men.

    #19) Matthew 28:2 reports they saw an angel. John 20:11-12 claims they saw two angels.

    #20) There are contradictions as to the identity of the women who came to the tomb. Matthew says “Mary Magdalene and the other Mary” were there. Mark says that it was “Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome.” Luke says that it is: “Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them.” John says it was only “Mary Magdalene.”

    #21) Whether the men or angels the women saw were inside or outside the tomb. Matthew has them outside and the others insider.

    #22) Whether the men or angels were standing or sitting. Luke has them standing and the others have them sitting.

    #23) Whether Mary Magdalene recognized the risen Jesus when he first appeared to her. Matthew says yes, John says no.

    #24) There are conflicting accounts of Paul’s conversion. Acts 9:7 states that when Jesus called Paul to preach the gospel the men who were with Paul heard a voice but saw no man. According to Acts 22:9, the men saw a light but didn’t hear the voice speaking to Paul.

  34. The Truth says:

    People can read points 25-47 including false prophecies that never came true from both the OT and the NT and see how history played out with both testaments as well.

    http://uscatholic.yuku.com/topic/51/

    Cheers!

  35. The Truth says:

    Finally, this has been a perfect illustration of both sides of the argument. I have presented my points, backed them up with logic, reason and fact over and over again.

    In response to those points, the Christians have come on, called me names (which is the antithesis to the book they “supposedly” worship) and they haven’t offered up any counterpoints whatsoever of real substance.

    Instead of the Christians standing up and saying, “Those are some good points for me to at least think about” they choose to put their fingers in their ears and scream “La-la-la-la;-la” at the top of their lungs as to not hear any information that contradicts their current belief schema that they’ve already been brainwashed with.

    My goal here is not “convert” people to agnosticism, atheism, etc. My goal is simply to get people to think for themselves. I grew up Catholic from Day 1 and so I was brainwashed from Day 1. Yet when you are in that environment, it is hard to realize that was taking place. As time went on, I started to question things, but in the end, I’d always end up back with the Church because of the fear and guilt they instilled in me from an early age. Items that started pushing me over the edge were the fact that I realized that they were only giving me part of the story. They NEVER talked about contradictions and instead just “spun” the stories as they saw fit. They also never taught all of the Bible, just the parts they cherry picked out. My brother became a Born-Again Christian and I remember asking him, “What happens if a child is born in the mountains of Tibet and never hears about the Bible before he/she dies.” He immediately responded back with, “They go to hell.” This seemed so absurd to me that I started to think more and more about religion as a whole. Then when I finally realized how hypocritical the Church was, I realized that I could no longer in good conscience be associated with them (and I doubt Jesus would want to be associated with them at this point either).

    Now keep in mind, this was NOT an easy move to make. I had a ton of fear and guilt looming over me. Yet as time went on, I realized I was MUCH happier not being held under their proverbial thumb. You have just as good of a chance of “correctly” interpreting the Bible as do I or as does the Pope or as does a homeless man living in a dumpster. With that in mind, there was no need for me to allow them to have their thoughts dictate my life. Just because I don’t have the label “Catholic” or “Christian” associated with me, doesn’t prevent me from still doing good works. I never realized how heavy of a burden that guilt and fear was until I removed it.

    In the end, there are countless viewpoints that we can hold. I want to challenge my viewpoints constantly. 90%+ of the time when I listen to and/or read expert viewpoints on various subjects, they are from the opposite side of what I currently believe is most likely the case. I no longer have the need to have continual repitition from a bunch of people that agree with my point of view. What good does that do me? I want to read people who disagree with me in order to attempt to prove my own beliefs to be false. If my beliefs were false, then I change my belief schema to get back in touch with reality… it does me no good whatsoever to hold false beliefs. Thus, challenging one’s belief schema is really a win/win scenario. It is a shame that most current Christians are afraid to wholeheartedly attempt that win/win scenario of challenging their beliefs for themselves. The fear of what they might discover (the world of reality) keeps them living in delusion.

    In any event, sincere warm wishes to everyone on both sides of the debate.

    Peace!🙂

  36. The Truth says:

    Yep, all the Christians “amazingly” disappeared from this conversation when they realized they couldn’t debate the obvious. Not surprising since it happens all the time. They will go back into their fictional world, pretend that none of this reality exists and continue to be blind sheep following a 2K year old book written by uneducated men who would have believed the earth to be flat. Classic!

    Thank for the laughs…

    Peace!

  37. Burg says:

    “the truth”

    You cite contradictions in the bible. What does that prove? The bible as you know is mans interpretation of gods word. Is it going to be perfect? No..

    Your beliefs on this are very much faith based as well.. Do you know for certain that god does not exist? Nope, ya sure don’t, but you have faith in what you know to come to the conclusion that he does not. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but don’t belittle people for their beliefs. Your ” spoken like a true Christian” remarks frankly make you sound pompous and arrogant.

    The world is unfortunately full of fanatics who can’t accept someone for their beliefs. Religion is not the root cause of much of what goes on in the world. It’s a scapegoat. The root cause is us. If it wasnt religion than mankind would find something else to fight each other over.

    Personally, I like the thought of the big man upstairs watching over me( hopefully not ALL the time haha). It’s what I believe. To think that one day I’ll see my mother and father again one day is comforting. A lot of people need something or someone to believe in. I think I understand what your trying to say but why try and discourage that?.. I appreciate the enlightenment but I think I’ll stick with MY faith… Call me what you will

    1. The Truth says:

      *** Burg writes: “You cite contradictions in the bible. What does that prove? The bible as you know is mans interpretation of gods word. Is it going to be perfect? No.”

      The majority of believers think the Bible is inerrant.

      *** “Do you know for certain that god does not exist? Nope, ya sure don’t, but you have faith in what you know to come to the conclusion that he does not”

      I actually covered this already when I stated above that it is impossible to disprove a negative. Thus, I can’t say one way nor the other, though I haven’t ruled out the possibility of a Supreme Being… I just ruled out that it is not the one contained within the Bible.

      *** “Your ” spoken like a true Christian” remarks frankly make you sound pompous and arrogant.”

      What you are failing to realize is that Christians and atheists/agnostics get to play by different sets of rules. Christians are bound to the core values in which they base their entire belief systems on. To act contradictory to what they self-profess is their belief schemas in order to get them into Heaven is hypocritical. Atheists/Agnostics can do so because they don’t impose this self-inflicted standard upon themselves necessarily.

      *** “The world is unfortunately full of fanatics who can’t accept someone for their beliefs. ”

      Exactly… a bunch of religious nuts who want their religion to rule the world as they can’t accept others for their own fictional religious beliefs. The members of Christianity and Islam are prime examples of this. Both of these are Abrahamic religions which means that for all intents and purposes they worship the exact same God. Yet they are willing to stand there and fight with each other that their religion and their God is better. It is hilarious.

      **** “Religion is not the root cause of much of what goes on in the world. It’s a scapegoat. The root cause is us. If it wasnt religion than mankind would find something else to fight each other over.”

      Actually, there is a direct correlation between religion and IQ. The super religious are the least intelligent segment of all society. Without religion, our society might be more intelligent and more refined.

      *** “Personally, I like the thought of the big man upstairs watching over me( hopefully not ALL the time haha).”

      LOL

      *** “To think that one day I’ll see my mother and father again one day is comforting. A lot of people need something or someone to believe in.”

      First off, I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your loved ones. But you hit the nail on the head. But keep in mind that just because something is comforting doesn’t necessarily mean it is healthy. A big bottle of Jack Daniels can “comfort” lots of people as well.

      *** “I think I understand what your trying to say but why try and discourage that?”

      I do because it is unhealthy to hold delusion as reality. Delusion is a mental illness as defined by the DSM IV. I went to faith based schools for 12 years. My parents are devout Catholics. One of my brothers is a devout Born-Again. If they spent all the time and money they waste on their religion and instead used that time and money to actually help the needy, the world would be a MUCH better place. Imagine if everyone of faith stopped going to church and instead used that immense amount of time and resources to give of themselves to those less fortunate than they are… the world would be exponentially better off as a result.

      *** “I appreciate the enlightenment but I think I’ll stick with MY faith”

      Faith is one thing, but it has limits. It is a fine line. Having faith as an adult that the Easter Bunny is real is different from having faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. One of those is delusional and the other is logic based. You might find this an interesting dichotomy if you haven’t seen it:

      h**p://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

      *** “Call me what you will”

      I will… and what I’ll call you is a good person.

      I am a big a Gators fan and thus love Tim Tebow on the field, yet his constant God talk off the field is painful to my ears. However, I have mad respect for Tim because he tries to practice what he preaches. He donates his time to REAL causes and is a great role model.

      In your case, you acted in a manner in which corresponds with the overriding themes in the Bible. Compare that with the others on here who are clearly hypocrites. There is big difference. So kudos to you.

      If you are interested, I’d encourage you to check a few of these threads out as you’d likely find some of it interesting as it appears you have an open mind (in fact you can see a version of the Golden Rule in countless other cultures in one of the threads). This was from another site that truncated responses after a tiny number of characters and so I created this site in order to give more appropriate length responses. I think you’ll see that in almost all of these threads where applicable, it is I that am fighting for the “little guy” that religion discriminates against instead of vice versa:

      h**p://uscatholic.yuku.com/forums/66

      So just because someone doesn’t claim the title of “Christian” or other religious group, doesn’t mean that they are some evil heathens.

      Peace!

  38. The Truth says:

    *** Burg writes: “You cite contradictions in the bible. What does that prove? The bible as you know is mans interpretation of gods word. Is it going to be perfect? No.”

    The majority of believers think the Bible is inerrant.

    *** “Do you know for certain that god does not exist? Nope, ya sure don’t, but you have faith in what you know to come to the conclusion that he does not”

    I actually covered this already when I stated above that it is impossible to disprove a negative. Thus, I can’t say one way nor the other, though I haven’t ruled out the possibility of a Supreme Being… I just ruled out that it is not the one contained within the Bible.

    *** “Your ” spoken like a true Christian” remarks frankly make you sound pompous and arrogant.”

    What you are failing to realize is that Christians and atheists/agnostics get to play by different sets of rules. Christians are bound to the core values in which they base their entire belief systems on. To act contradictory to what they self-profess is their belief schemas in order to get them into Heaven is hypocritical. Atheists/Agnostics can do so because they don’t impose this self-inflicted standard upon themselves necessarily.

    *** “The world is unfortunately full of fanatics who can’t accept someone for their beliefs. ”

    Exactly… a bunch of religious nuts who want their religion to rule the world as they can’t accept others for their own fictional religious beliefs. The members of Christianity and Islam are prime examples of this. Both of these are Abrahamic religions which means that for all intents and purposes they worship the exact same God. Yet they are willing to stand there and fight with each other that their religion and their God is better. It is hilarious.

    **** “Religion is not the root cause of much of what goes on in the world. It’s a scapegoat. The root cause is us. If it wasnt religion than mankind would find something else to fight each other over.”

    Actually, there is a direct correlation between religion and IQ. The super religious are the least intelligent segment of all society. Without religion, our society might be more intelligent and more refined.

    *** “Personally, I like the thought of the big man upstairs watching over me( hopefully not ALL the time haha).”

    LOL

    *** “To think that one day I’ll see my mother and father again one day is comforting. A lot of people need something or someone to believe in.”

    First off, I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your loved ones. But you hit the nail on the head. But keep in mind that just because something is comforting doesn’t necessarily mean it is healthy. A big bottle of Jack Daniels can “comfort” lots of people as well.

    *** “I think I understand what your trying to say but why try and discourage that?”

    I do because it is unhealthy to hold delusion as reality. Delusion is a mental illness as defined by the DSM IV. I went to faith based schools for 12 years. My parents are devout Catholics. One of my brothers is a devout Born-Again. If they spent all the time and money they waste on their religion and instead used that time and money to actually help the needy, the world would be a MUCH better place. Imagine if everyone of faith stopped going to church and instead used that immense amount of time and resources to give of themselves to those less fortunate than they are… the world would be exponentially better off as a result.

    *** “I appreciate the enlightenment but I think I’ll stick with MY faith”

    Faith is one thing, but it has limits. It is a fine line. Having faith as an adult that the Easter Bunny is real is different from having faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. One of those is delusional and the other is logic based. You might find this an interesting dichotomy if you haven’t seen it:

    http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

    *** “Call me what you will”

    I will… and what I’ll call you is a good person.

    I am a big a Gators fan and thus love Tim Tebow on the field, yet his constant God talk off the field is painful to my ears. However, I have mad respect for Tim because he tries to practice what he preaches. He donates his time to REAL causes and is a great role model.

    In your case, you acted in a manner in which corresponds with the overriding themes in the Bible. Compare that with the others on here who are clearly hypocrites. There is big difference. So kudos to you.

    If you are interested, I’d encourage you to check a few of these threads out as you’d likely find some of it interesting as it appears you have an open mind (in fact you can see a version of the Golden Rule in countless other cultures in one of the threads). This was from another site that truncated responses after a tiny number of characters and so I created this site in order to give more appropriate length responses. I think you’ll see that in almost all of these threads where applicable, it is I that am fighting for the “little guy” that religion discriminates against instead of vice versa:

    http://uscatholic.yuku.com/forums/66

    So just because someone doesn’t claim the title of “Christian” or other religious group, doesn’t mean that they are some evil heathens.

    Peace!

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